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1st-Aug-2007 10:04 pm
Reborn - Yamamoto CHIBITA
My sincere apologies to everyone who has heard this before, whether from me or from elsewhere, but things like these make me really rather mad.

tales of fandom... venting.

On the whole, fandom is a really great place to be. (I mean, of course it is: otherwise, why would we be here?) It's a really great place to meet people who share similar interests so you can be happy over moments when you feel really blessed by your fandom, in what is given to it and in what people make of it. But omg. I hate moments like these. There is absolutely nothing that takes the joy out of scanning (what joy there is in scanning) more than the sense of entitlement certain inhabitants of fandom possess.

Even making this post just isn't fair to those genuinely nice people in fandom, who make me happy to share things and put these things out there. There are a lot of people out there who are polite, kind, and helpful, and it has been my great joy and privilege to meet most of you. This post isn't directed at you. It is, however, directed at those who think that people who put scans online are automatic scanning machines, and that they are entitled to demand anything they like off such people, as if they had a right to it, and you should be happy to jump at doing their bidding.

It doesn't work that way. The reason I put these things out there is really to share the fandom love, and also because I know that manga (and fandom) is an expensive habit, and that Tales manga aren't particularly easy to come by, and that many people who want it can't afford it, can't get it, or are otherwise prevented from acquiring it.

The thing is, it is not so much that the thing she asked of me is so extraordinary, or would put me so much out of my way to do it. I would do what she asked for any of my friends, or even people who asked nicely. It was not so much what she asked as the way she asked it. I was perfectly happy and willing to scan that extra manga, it's just that that exchange up there has so put me off it for the time being that it really annoys me!

I don't demand to be thanked or expect gratitude for doing what I do - It's really nothing much! I don't think I'm anything special by putting these things out there. A lot of these things I'd do naturally. What do I do? Look out for news when new Tales manga is about to be published, keep an eye out for it in bookstores, and make orders and reservations if necessary, buy the manga and pay for it on my own, come home and effectively destroy the manga by crushing it for scanning (not really bothered about this, scans last as long as the last computer that holds them! ♥), clean up the scans, upload them to my own LJ gallery, and share 'em. Sounds like a lot? Not at all. It's something I'd do on my own, willingly and happily, to share the scans with anyone who cares, and I honestly don't care if two or twenty or two hundred people comment, as long as any fan out there got 'em and it made them happy.

I don't demand people comment when they download (I know many people don't bother, and it doesn't bother me, even if my YSI limits on both accounts get broken with regularity whenever I do uploads, it really doesn't matter to me, it's just an occupational hazard). You will never see "Comment when taking!" on any of my posts. I don't expect people to credit and link back whenever they use my scans (dude, it's a bother, and it's not important to me, the important thing is that you got the scans and they made you happy, and love the series or characters a little bit more). And I want to put the scans out there for everyone, and so I don't even friends-lock them to my LJ or to communities. I don't create special approval-only friends-locked communities for my scans. I don't believe in making people jump through hoops to get fandom resources. I have never been that way, and gods of fandom willing, I never will be.

But I do expect some measure of common courtesy and civility. I'd like for people to realise that I am not an automated Abyss enquiry/scans authority, obligated to give them everything they ask for, whether it be scans or answers to questions or artwork or anything. I like to think (and I sure do hope) that I am cheerfully attitude-free, and I don't just leap up out of the blue and yell YOU ARE DISRESPECTING ME! for nothing.

I am not especially fond of making posts like these, but I have slowly come to realise that if I don't speak up and properly express my true feelings about things like these, behaviour which I dislike is just going to keep happening, and that if I don't put my foot down, it just won't stop. I apologise to all of you who don't give me problems and who are people I am proud and happy to share a fandom with.

1st-Aug-2007 02:43 pm (UTC)
... You know how I feel about this. >.>

LET ME SAY SOMETHING! Please. It's so hard to sit back and watch people treat you rudely over and over again without saying anything. *growls!*

I have to go out for a very short while (buying pizza!) but I'll be back and suffer your "NO!" later? xD ALL THE WHILE HOPING ONE DAY YOU WILL SAY YES AND LET ME AT THEM!
1st-Aug-2007 03:06 pm (UTC)
OMG HI SAMMY. ;) I am so amused at your icon. But the poor garden gnome should be left well-alone! It would be a waste of all the impressive curse words it has learned in the company of the Weasley family! ;)

omg sweetie it is perfectly okay! ♥ I am planning to ignore it entirely myself, and there is really and absolutely no need to kick up a fuss because of it. Do you not find an exchange of acrimonious and annoyed comments incredibly exhausting? Leave it be, sweets, and let the only place that has RAR about it be my LJ.

XDD!! I had pizza today too! It was really good! ;) And you already know you will suffer my NO, but it was sweet of you to ask. XDDDDD

And sweetie! You might have to wait a really long time for me to say yes to that. ;)
1st-Aug-2007 02:49 pm (UTC)
Eh...huh? Maybe it's just me, but I don't see that as particularly rude. A bit childish, perhaps. But I've had entire comments that only consisted of "More plz, yes?"

I agree with you on sharing, though. I upload stuff as a side thing for friends and communities...I don't derive my entire sense of self-worth from them, which is what some people seem to do. The only time when I think requiring commenting is okay is with private servers, since bandwidth costs a hefty sum. But anyway, you'll always get people on the side who could care less. That's the occupational hazard of being on the Internet, as you said.

You know, the best comments I've received (to whatever material it is I've shared) are not just thanks, but actual discussion about the content.
1st-Aug-2007 03:04 pm (UTC)
XDDDD!! I would have welcomed "More plz, yes?" But that's because I interpret "More plz, yes?" as "I liked that, and I'd like more!" Not a specifically worded demand for exactly what they wanted, with the expectation that I would agree, and an added-on demand minutes later for more.

The first comment was absolutely fine! Could have done with a "please" in there, that would have been nice. But the second just made me go D:, because I was Could you please at least wait for me to get back to you on your first scanning request, before going off to ask more of me? I've been turning it over in my head off and on since yesterday (silly, I know), but I just had to get it out. Maybe it's not fair in the sense that it's not her fault that hers just happens to be demand #100 coming after the 99 that came before it, in a straw-that-breaks-the-scanner's-happy scenario.

And maybe it's not just the comment itself, it's just that if I make it okay for her to make demands like that, more people will feel that it's okay to ask these things of me in just the same offhand way and expect me to comply. It really wasn't her asking that was the problem, it's just that she asked in a way that made me feel as if she expected me to agree to do it.

XD Same here! I think it's okay to ask for comments when the stuff's uploaded on private servers. But I'm familiar with people who ask for credit when people take icons, or stuff uploaded on free hosts.

XDDD!!! I am so evil about people that don't care, because I am "If they don't care and I don't know about them, then they don't exist, and I don't need to care about them!" XDDD The good thing about people that don't care is that they don't give you trouble openly - only in a passive, free-rider sense. ;)

XDDDDDDDD!!! oh my god, I totally agree! I don't care if people don't thank me (even though it is nice), but my favourite comments are discussion about the content! ♥ It makes me so happy, because it's like you can share all your thoughts about what's being shared with people who think the same way or at least understand where you're coming from! ♥ But meaningful discussion can't be forced, or even demanded the way people demand thanks. I'm just happy for it when it happens. ♥
1st-Aug-2007 02:53 pm (UTC)
Well, that person's first comment could have been taken in a 'wow, these scans were great so the other must be too' sense, but that second comment killed it. >8E What an ass.

I may not be the best at remembering to comment, but I would never have the audacity to ask something of someone in a non humble manner. Maybe that's just due to how I was raised. :/
1st-Aug-2007 03:09 pm (UTC)
The first was generally okay, but the second so soon without even finding out if I was okay with more scanning work was totally D8. RAR.

XD! I try to do my best with commenting myself, but I know that people are busy and that sometimes it really is too much trouble to comment, so I'm totally okay with not-commenting. It's the demanding comments that make me go >:E

I'm glad you were raised that way! ♥
(Deleted comment)
1st-Aug-2007 03:11 pm (UTC)
*snuuuug* Thank you so much, sweetheart, and I'm so sorry you had to read this! *snuuug* I love you to pieces, don't ever forget that. ♥ You're real good at cheering me up, too, and omg it makes me so happy just to know I can make people happy. *snug!*

Hugging and inappropriate groping is perfect and wonderful and I LOVE YOU ALL THE MORE FOR IT. ♥

(I had pizza today! And food! But I was also skating... and I hope I don't get skinnier, too! Parents beginning to worry a little)
1st-Aug-2007 02:55 pm (UTC)
*hugs* I definitely agree with you. When sharing something out of the joy of sharing, it's a giant rat in the proverbial soup when someone decides to act all "now, slave, I command thee! Fall at my feet and go do my bidding!"

I've experienced sort of the same thing with fanfics - people start getting demanding, wanting more or wanting me to change it to suit their whims, or vastly more common, demands for updates. And I don't mind suggestions, or requests (although I reserve the right to not take them) - but you're right, it's the attitude of entitlement that's obnoxious. Like, by providing FREE entertainment you're now somehow obligated to perform on command like a trained monkey. *rolls eyes*

I'm glad that you're able to keep a relatively positive outlook on fandom, though. Because you're right, there are great things about it, things that make it worth coming back despite the wank and childishness. ^_^
1st-Aug-2007 03:17 pm (UTC)
Oh my heavens, I am so sorry you had to see this, especially when you just posted your Conrad/Wolfram fic and I want to run right over there to give it the love it properly deserves! *snug*

The image of the rat in the soup makes me grin from ear to ear, and I agree completely with you. Just because you're happy to do something willingly doesn't mean you're equally happy to do it when commanded.

I've heard that from fanfic writers I know, and I am genuinely sorry you have to put up with such people. All of us have probably have had fics which we wished were updated more frequently than they were, but what most of us do is just sit on it and go ARGGHH!! I wish she/he/it would update! IT'S KILLING ME!! to our friends. I'm familiar with stories dying or authors losing interest in fandoms or fanfic, and I think readers should respect what the authors want to do. Besides, pressure kills it for some authors! ;)

♥ I have a 95% positive outlook on fandom: sometimes, even the bad parts of fandom are worthy of amusement, or, you know, that old adage, adopted for fandom, "If you can't beat 'em, LAUGH AT THEM", for our inner three-year-olds. I'm of the mind that the wank and childishness makes us appreciate the good in fandom all the more. ;)
1st-Aug-2007 03:25 pm (UTC)
Oh how nice, it appears as if all branches of the Offense Brigade are out in full force this week.

Damn, I've rewritten this comment far too many times. ^^; I should probably type up a rant sometime soon, but I fear it will turn out rather ugly. *sighs* I... really, really, really hate fandom right now. Abyss and HP in particular. *sighs again*

I'm not really into Symphonia anymore, but it was very nice to see the scans. Yuan and Kratos were totally doing each other. And I know how much of an annoyance scanning can be, which is why I actually never ask anything of anybody unless they offer (and then I try to give them something back in return...).

Well, the point is, I appreciate it everytime I see a big honking post full of scans from you and will be more than happy to help you dispose of the bodies that belong to the morons who can't seem to understand that fandom isn't solely about their wants.
1st-Aug-2007 03:36 pm (UTC)
It is definitely more than time for TOUGH LOVE. ;) Hopefully, of the Kratos on a slap-happy attack variety. ;)

I'm so sorry to add this to the fandom-is-evil-and-not-in-a-good-way week. Though my experience really isn't even anywhere near the level of fandom miscegenation (I'm sure everyone is sick of the word by now), rar. *snuuug* I'm so sorry that you hate Abyss and HP in particular, and I wish I could give you some fandom love.

XDD!! I came to Symphonia very late, as my interest came as a result of being interested in Abyss, and really only started to peak when the fourth manga came out. I am such a newbie, it's laughable! ;) And Yuan and Kratos were definitely doing each other. Just as they always were. One of my pet crack theories is that Yuan is really Lloyd's mother. I try to adopt the same policy to scanning myself, and I try not to ask for anything which I can get myself. And I'm definitely with you on trying to give something back - or at least, asking really nicely.

THANK YOU SO MUCH. ♥ AND I LOVE YOU, even when there aren't any bodies to dispose of. ♥
1st-Aug-2007 03:41 pm (UTC)
I completely know how you feel. :/ THere was a time that I was the only one willing to scan in some of my stuff from certain fandoms and I remember someone was like "Requesting scans that don't look so shitty." and I stopped servicing fandom for a good long time. u_u;; *hugs* I hope that you don't get discouraged too much from sharing stuff with the fandom community... because well, it would be a shame if people stopped sharing in general. D:
1st-Aug-2007 04:47 pm (UTC)
... *goes back in time and retrospectively gives the person who told you that A KRATOS BITCHSLAP* My heavens, that was nasty and completely ARGH, and were I you, I'd have done the exact same thing. Fandom can go service itself if it wants to be that way.

*hugs you tight!* I hope I never get discouraged from sharing stuff, it is fun, and I generally think so. It's just that moments like these kind of cloud the happy for a little while, but never fear! ;) There are always loads of great people out there which I want to share stuff with, like you. ♥
1st-Aug-2007 04:15 pm (UTC)
Hey, how have you been hun?

now on topic, i know how you feel in some respects, though for me I scan because i'm happy to as you are to share the love for the fandom, though i have yet to recieve comments like that @_@ but i now i will someday. Thanks for those scans though now i know Zelos is ok! XD

people need to understand that we scan things in our own free time, and we don't have the time of day to be scanning everything in HQ haha my skills are getting better at scanning but still not there yet.

on another note, i have 15 more asch/luke doujinshi on the way XD haha i'm such a dork that's obsessed with these two
1st-Aug-2007 04:20 pm (UTC)
15 more?!? D: I bow to your Asch/Luke geekitude. ;) It far outstrips mine at this point.
1st-Aug-2007 05:10 pm (UTC)

*glomps* Seconded.

and and and OT, but I saw tales of fandom I and II at Gamestore today. Even though it was in Japanese. I was tempted just to get it on principle. Do you know anything about it? The game, I mean - because I've seen the skits. Is it just a Character A vs Character B thing?
1st-Aug-2007 05:16 pm (UTC)
You are so cruel, because you know I'd say yes to virtually anything you'd ask me for, with a smile on my face. ♥

OMGZ WHAT SCANS I LIVE TO PLEASE YOU and make you happy - oh D8, this is totally not working because I genuinely mean this when you're concerned.



I think it's more like a FUN character discovery game in general with less of Character A vs Character B: there are great Peony and Jade moments as well as Guy-Luke ones, Peony-Dist-Jade and more Guy-Luke, student council!Asch and butler!Jade - warning, all very image-heavy, and LOVE. ;)
1st-Aug-2007 05:58 pm (UTC)
Hrm... that comment was kind of so-so, :/ It wasn't particularly rude, but it wasn't very polite either, was it? Then again, I find on the internet that a lot of people just conveniently forget that "please" exists in the English language. When I make requests, I usually make sure it's in there, or at the very least form the question without making it sound as if I expect an instant "yes!" Come on, people, courtesy is not that complicated.

Speaking of scanning, I'm way behind. I have doujin waiting to be scanned here and five more in the mail... yikes. I'll be busy later this month.

I never said this before (was on dialup, I think, at the time) but thank you for posting the scans! I'd never seen the Symphonia manga, so it was cool to get a peek at it, :3 The Kratos/Lloyd pages were really adorable. ♥
1st-Aug-2007 06:11 pm (UTC)
Heh, I get what you mean, but I'll have to say to you what I said up here: it's not so much the lack of politeness as the expectation that I should do it. "Will you be posting more scans later?" would have been totally acceptable and civil without using the word "please", and would have conveyed the same meaning in a direct way without being even half as offensive. And, "It would be great if you could upload a high-res scan of X picture!" has no please but manages to put the request across much better, IMHO.

And I suppose one request would have been fine, but adding a second one immediately after the first makes me think My God, give this person and inch and she'll take a mile. It's that attitude which I took umbrage to.

That said, what's common courtesy to someone is excessive formality for someone else, and what is rude to me may not be rude to you: you could make a case for saying it's all quite subjective to a point.

XDD!! Take your time with doujin scanning! ;) Oh, man, this is such a politically-incorrect view, but I wish I was able to put doujin scans on public. *wry smile*

XD! You're most welcome, and you don't need to say it, I'm just glad you were able to see them. And oh, the Kratos-Lloyd was so very very cute - if you saw my Volume 4 scans, Kratos saves Lloyd from Yuan, XDDD.
1st-Aug-2007 06:06 pm (UTC)
*hugs* Hun, I'd set them on fire if I could~ <3

I hate when people do that. I don't expect anything in return, either (and I HATE asking for stuff anyway D:), but courtesy is a VERY nice thing. I started to become irked when I went out of my way to scan a few doujin here and there, and people would comment with things like, "Well I'd rather you did this one" or "When will you do this one" and it just...ran me down. I will continue to scan- when things aren't so crappy for me, but I hate those comments. It also doesn't help that there are a COUPLE of people on my flist that I think solely friended me FOR the scans (and they make it quite apparent). So, naturally, when I hear demands like that I'm rather put off EVEN MORE.

So, yes, I do know how you feel on this whole account. And it feels REALLY shitty, so I'm sorry you do feel that way.
But, you know, what helps me is that I realize that while those 2 or 3 people can be jerkwads, I still have a lot of nice people on my flist that are SO very much worth my time and energy and who help me a lot that I just stop giving a damn and focus on the awesome people.
2nd-Aug-2007 03:22 pm (UTC)
You should just put those people OFF your scans flist if they're so self-righteous in thinking people are scanning machines for them ^^;;;
1st-Aug-2007 09:14 pm (UTC)
This was a rather fascinating post to read, comments included.

Perhaps she just needs a lesson on tact and etiquette. I'm not sure how she's managed to survive on the net for so long, but some people remain painfully oblivious about their shortfalls until others tell them. (I have to admit that I still can't see how this one comment irks you though.)

And I never did realise you're a manga scan provider. Kudos for taking the time and money (oh, especially the money) to share stuff with the world!
2nd-Aug-2007 02:53 am (UTC) - Seeing, but not comprehending D:
Long time no comment XD I can kind of see what you're angry about, but then I don't fully understand. D8 I can see how the comments are impolite leecher requests, but please don't get so worked up over those two comments. ):):): It's simply not worth your time, imo. Though I do wonder if I've ever acted like her before. Hmm...


Putting that aside, I wanted to also comment on your layout + icons. I recently watched that movie on the plane lately (I was in Singapore for 4 days last week XDD), and I must admit that the two together are so ghei. <33
2nd-Aug-2007 03:19 pm (UTC)
I'd like for people to realise that I am not an automated Abyss enquiry/scans authority

XD Chris the Abyss Search Ring. *SHOT*

5th-Aug-2007 01:04 am (UTC)
I'm sorry that this happens/happened to you. I hope I don't come off as rude because I like all the stuff you do in lj
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